I heard from a co-worker that people that have experimented with various perception altering substances have a remarkably higher IQ and tend to be very well educated. I was wondering. Does having a higher intelligence cultivate a curiousity about experimenting with such substances? Or, does the perception altering substances open one's mind up to other ways of veiwing the world and therefore causes an expansion of consciouness that leads to a higher IQ?
What do you think?
What do you think?
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 1:05 PMI have heard this is true with native tribes that use peyote. It is not necessarily true of all drugs, and the social context is a major factor, not just the substance.
Do you have a source to quote some numbers? -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 1:54 PMSorry to say that I don't have any hard numbers or verifiable sources. I was kind of hoping that my comments would jog someone's memory to list some websites. My comments came from a very casual conversation at work. One of my co-workers started a topic off on amazing facts. In some psychology magazine, he read about about how a large number of recreational drug users simply don't fit into the typical descriptions of law enforcement agencies. These drug users are not just incredibly intelligent but also very well educated and have high standing jobs.
At the risk of colouring people's opinions, I'll continue with what my co-worker said. He mentioned that the magazine article went on to say that the psychologists conducting the survey felt that drug use didn't improve people's intellect or expand's one's consciousness. The reserachers believe that very bright people are very often curious and the use of recreational drugs was an expression their innate couriosity.
When I think about those comments, it does make sense. If one where to look at how psychologists assess if a child is showing signs of mental retardation, part of the criteria used is to see if the child is curious about its environment. It's very normal for a child to always ask: Why this and why that? Apparently very bright people don't stop asking why and continue to grow intellectually as their couriosity leads them to new aswers and more questions. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 1:58 PMit's true in my case, anyway. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 2:04 PMa high IQ as compared to what...? -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 2:13 PMCompared to the average non-drug using man/ woman walking on the street. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 3:08 PMjeez...
average people are homicidal morons...
and usually totally messed up with drink and drugs too...
but they're damned smart when it comes to finding the beer and propagating...
so I reckon IQ is down to whatever NLP the system is running... -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 3:16 PMas i think about this, it can only be described in the broadest of ways, and because the essential premise would speak well of me personally and those I play with, I agree!
But let's not take my word for it. Let's just everyone line up over here in two groups, those who count entheogens as life-giving medicine and those who don't, and take some highly subjective tests which include logic and problem solving, appreciation indices and sense of humor quotients and then EVEryone including the control group take a healthy does of some strong cognitive modifier and take all the tests again!
I know we'll win. Maybe we can get published, get funding, and be able to pay our rent in September. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 3:19 PMI was gonna start a thread to ask about what drugs to take to get rich...
and like impress girls and stuff...
but maybe this thread will reveal the necessary info...
and save me some effort... -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 3:25 PMIQ scores only measure a dozen or so types of intelligence. Depending on who you ask, there should be from 3 to 30 times as many seperate skills, most of which are difficult to test for. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 3:50 PMlets eat five grams of mushrooms and then take the test ... ? Or fuck it, just let the mushrooms take the test themselves -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 4:03 PMany of you genius' know if shrooms are good for MS - right now I can't even cum and bowl cramps the other day almost killed me, felt like. All the muscles in legs tightening up - ouch! But the nerves are definately coming back. Once when I ate six grams I felt "psilocybin fairies" going up and down my spine unlocking somehing, laughing like children. It kind of tickled my spine and made me giggle, infectious. I had the feeling that they were trying to heal something - could it have been the MS, I wonder? This happened almost exactly a year before my recent attack. Right now I'm afraid - the pain from the cramps the other day was frightening bad. I'm afraid the shrooms might make me tense up down there. But on the other hand, another healing attempt miight be called for ...
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 5:13 PMI so whole heartedly agree with what you're saying "Sent..." The typical IQ test really is much too focused from a very western stand point. There are a number of indices that could be added in that are not commonly appreciated such as emotional IQ, cognitive, visual, audio, social, spiritual, aesthetic, culinary, artistic, parental, sexual IQ, and so on. . The list can literally go on and on. There are an incredible number of parameters that also cross cultural boundaries. Therefore, I'd like to think of IQ tests as only one small facet of a much larger picture.
I think though that the gist of the arguement is that even though people may take perception altering substances, it doesn't mean that they are of a dubious nature. People really want to be accepted for who they are--and not what others expect them to be. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 5:27 PMI get your point - what are you saying, I'm not "straight" enough to understand, I'm not "sane" enough? Not really ... here? what?
You can start with the certainty that most of us think we are pretty smart. Ha ha ha I wouldn't go testing it, though. Bad idea. Not that I am against science mind you. What I am against is affirming with any kind of objective test my own stupidity.
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Re: High IQ Found Among Psychonauts
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 10:21 PMlol! you're a card!
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 7:30 PMSources showing the effect of marijuana on IQ:
www.drugscience.org/sfu/sfu_...term.html
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/...act/166/7/887
www.cannabisculture.com/articl...88.html
I don't know of any regarding psychedelics, and the ones above all refer to the same research, which showed the following:
"Current marijuana use was significantly correlated in a dose-related fashion with a decline in IQ when compared to the IQ measured at age 9-12. In current heavy users, the IQ showed a decrease of 4.1 points, compared to gains in IQ points for light current users (5.8), former users (3.5) and non-users (2.6). The authors concluded that current cannabis use "had a negative effect on global IQ score only in subjects who smoked 5 or more joints per week" and that "marijuana does not have a long-term negative impact on global intelligence." " -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 13, 2008 - 11:50 AMThe study is interesting, but from what I've read about it, it does not compensate for state-dependent memory. That is, there does not seem to be any accounting of whether or not the subjects were high at the time they took the test. In most studies of this type, they ask subjects not to be high at testing time, to screen for acute effects. However, studies of state-dependency with many mind-altering substances suggests that chronic users will perform better on the tests when under the influence.
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every bit helps
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 7:36 PMIQ : 121 -138 depending on the test last taken 20 years ago
Education past Ph.D.
and I was still a jackass until I tried psychedelics.
i'm much better now ;)
I attribute my success in life to having first gotten the tools and skill to be able to think well, and then by appling them to figuring myself out.
mostly calculus and differential equations and then my graduate work in molecular biology, a science dedicated to studying the contents of black boxes.
there are clearly so many other factors as important to discount, upgringing, nutrition, games, safety. terachers, music, art, dancing, friends, lovers, etc....
so learn all you can :)
or don't borrow. some of the most connected and blissful people i know are people who have a high emotional iq and kinestetic iq.
every part of our body has and uses intelligence.
get out of your head and it's institutions...
every human being alive has the potential to be happy healthy wealthy creative, connected, loving and loved from the moment they are born.
it's called freewill and choice ;)
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 12:50 AM -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 4:31 AMso lets put it this way...
as ever the evil hordes are seeking to destroy you...
would you prefer them to be sober or drunk or on shrooms or on meth...
maybe intelligence might be revealed by which nasties in what condition would find and exterminate you first...?
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 5:33 AMI took some windowpane a few times back in the early seventies and remember steeling myself to try it by convincing myself that I had the intellectual firepower to mentally extricate myself from whatever metaphysical quandaries the drug might subject me to. Of course, I was wrong about that - resistance is futile. Perhaps, though these eperiences tend to entice people who "think" they are smart enough to handle them and therefore the crowd might at least be enamored of thinking. That's not necessarily "smart" but statistically these folks may be stronger than average thinkers.
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 11:13 AMthe connection I can see concerns the astrological 9th house (Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter)...
mind expansion, psychedelics, "higher" education, exploration, risky yet optimistic adventure, open minds, academia ~ these things are all under one category in astrology
in a holographic multiverse, all the same thing, just different details
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 12:35 PMUh... what was the question? -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 1:36 PMjim morisson - "I'm a sagatarius, the most philosophical of all the signs"
woman in audience ... "o my god, I' a sagatarius also"
jim morisson - "but anyway, I don't believe in it, I think it's a bunch of bullshit, myself"
same woman in audience - "no, neither do I, I think it's a bunch of bullshit, too." -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 3:38 PMso I have a question for the smart folks...
actually probably a few questions...
but I'll start with...
how come pot is illegal...? -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 4:11 PM"how come pot is illegal...?"
WHAT? It's illegal? Damn... I'd better put this thing out... -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 4:21 PMis your cat taking a dump...?
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 5:20 PMbecause entheogens make people vote differently. The last thing this status quo system wants is an intelligent, radicalized population inclined to think for themselves. What this system wants is good consumers with a lot of debt who watch Bill O'Reilly a lot and maybe have one of Bill's books on their coffee table. What this system wants is a free market drone, an capitalist cog in the wheel, so stoned on television and alcohol, pornography and violence, that a good consumer does not really think at all but instead sort of exists within the system almost unconsciously most of the time - the original Matrix movie hit the nail on the head, uncanny.
Choose your pill, indeed.
I'll take the blue one, orpheus -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 6:25 AMwell the thing with matrix...
well it doesn't really matter much what pill you take...
people are probably going be homicidal morons whether blue or red...
but it is kinda freaky and offensive that booze is encouraged and pot forced underground...
I'm no expert but there seems to something deeply and darkly wrong with this realm of carnate nature...
maybe it is about time the governments tried legalizing it and putting acid in the water and force feeding us veggieburgers made of THC...
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 6:47 AMalcohol leaves one in a stupor, not radicalized. That is why booze is "encouraged". It goes perfectly along with televison as a means of mind control. It is promoted for the same reason that highly refined simple carbs are promoted, it serves the free market system to which we are but slaves ...
alcohol is the "state drug" even sold in special state licensed stores in some states. A societies state drug would say something about the society woudn't it? what is clear in all this is that the Masters do make the rules for the wisemen and the fools
but it is like Terence Mckenna said, "a wife beating without alcohol is like a circus without lions". -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 7:05 AMso like are you saying the masters are like psychonauts using booze and battery farming to repress and manipulate the hordes with pyramid schemes whilst they temselves hang out at rave parties on tropical beaches...? -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 8:19 AMso to liberate the boozers you have to exterminate the ravers... -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 8:55 AMwon't work, we just make more - 6.5 billion and growing -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 9:03 AMthe end is nigh... -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 12:14 PMThank God, for that!
<happy dance>
"the end is nigh"
<happy dance>
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 3:49 PMwhat are you so happy about...?
you know it's gonna be awful...
as usual... -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 3:55 PMthe end/death of awful things
leaving space for fresh things to grow
sure, new horrible things may arise
& old habits die hard
but I've noticed
things getting better
& I love to dance on graves
all-ways,
mem
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 3:59 PMwell I guess the rich are getting richer...
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 10:25 PMentheogens destroy the basic infrastructure of the capitalist, materialist system we have in place. I agree! Being a psychonaut doesn't make you a "good citizen" as McKenna says, at the very least it makes you question the authority and rules that are in place and the people whose lives depend on holding the current power structure in place do not want it questioned, and they surely don't want anybody trying to topple it! They are just protecting their assets...
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 7:20 PMIQ is short for intelligent quotient. An IQ test is set up to measure the inteligence of an individual. As it was pointed out earlier, it does fall short in many areas. -
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 5:44 PMSuch as assessing a persons ability in grasping comic irony? ;)
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Re: High IQ Found Among Pyschonauts
Fri, July 11, 2008 - 10:50 AMWell for one... Intelligent is a Sanskrit word that means... The Ability to Transmute Higher Spiritual Knowledge into Material Understanding... So in other words... It has nothing to do with Books Smarts at all.. It is a term that was Originally used for Intuitive Knowledge...
That... And IQ tests only measure your Ability to Learn... And your Problem Solving and Pattern Recognition... Not much to do with Books Smarts there Either...
So Seems to me... Most People have no clue what Either an IQ tests measures... Or what Intelligence really is...
Om A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhih Dhih Dhih
Peace =p
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