There seems to be a culture of psychedelic "fish-story" telling
on these and other forums I've been reading..
ie- the -you can't blast this much DMT little boy-
and -I ate more kilos of catus than you can- type of thing...
so I am calling on all you fearless, extreme, mega-master, mack-daddy badasses
to step up to the plate, stop talkin' smack, and provide the community with something useful
that will no doubt secure your position in the ranks of the worlds most universally respected psychonauts..
..for there is a great gap in the explorations made to the realms of one of, if not the most culturally and geographically
widespread and commonly used plant-teachers in human history..
I speaketh now of the Solanaceae family - datura, belladonna, brugmansia, brunfelsia.
just think...
you could be the "Terrence McKenna of Datura"
so impress us all, start a Solanaceae Tribe, begin your experiments...
and I promise to buy at least 2 copies of your first 3 books.
best wishes!
the most
on these and other forums I've been reading..
ie- the -you can't blast this much DMT little boy-
and -I ate more kilos of catus than you can- type of thing...
so I am calling on all you fearless, extreme, mega-master, mack-daddy badasses
to step up to the plate, stop talkin' smack, and provide the community with something useful
that will no doubt secure your position in the ranks of the worlds most universally respected psychonauts..
..for there is a great gap in the explorations made to the realms of one of, if not the most culturally and geographically
widespread and commonly used plant-teachers in human history..
I speaketh now of the Solanaceae family - datura, belladonna, brugmansia, brunfelsia.
just think...
you could be the "Terrence McKenna of Datura"
so impress us all, start a Solanaceae Tribe, begin your experiments...
and I promise to buy at least 2 copies of your first 3 books.
best wishes!
the most
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 3:39 AMum...
you first...
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 7:16 AMSorry If I ever gave the impression of bragging... -
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 7:53 AMone by one
or in pairs
waiting outside my window
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 1:37 PM"Sorry If I ever gave the impression of bragging..."
there are certainly fewer here than, say, other forums in other places..
although we've got a coulple...
and no shadone, you dont stick out like this to me...
I just wanted to point the very true fact of how popular daturas, etc. have been to
humanity, but how almost untouched it is by "the community".
and yes... I do know why...
so it seems to me that those brave souls here and elsewhere who have
gone to great lengths to make us believe they are psychedelic superheros
have a golden opportunity here...
thoughtful use of these could not be that much more hair-raising than
"blasting" 3 grams of pure crystaline DMT.. or eating seven feet of cacti.
Im willing to admit Im not ready for this.
but then...
I have not been claiming these types of things.
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 2:34 PMI'm unsure if your use of "hardcore" is yours or lifted from an actual post on this tribe.
Because to me, "hardcore"? seems like the antithesis of what anyone who explores in this way needs to come from. The only way I can navigate some of these paths are by coming from my "soft" core, you know?
but I get what you're saying and your point. I'd love to journey with datura but I just never see it around. it's sort of like the mother vine, perhaps, in that it is a spirit medicine, might'nt you say? -
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 3:04 PMwow that's kinda weird...
a couple of years ago when I felt I had fallen under a negative occult influence datura appeared everywhere around me and then I miraculously came across it's name online and felt quite strongly that it had come for me...
I very nearly went for it because I was in quite a desperate state and thought it might help..
I asked around about it and mostly got warned off plus I had a bad experience with belladonna in the 70's that sounded like the datura effect so I didn't go for it beyond smoking a tiny amount of leaf which seemed enough to mess with my eyesight though not enough for any weird trip...
it doesn't seem to have been back since but maybe it's waiting for some better weather...
a very impressive and kind of menacing looking plant...
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 3:25 PMthass what I'm sayin'!
chemicals are so easy to dial in, you know; they're santiary and precise and deliver a specific measurement.
Plants do have a spirit, and that spirit can come around all kind of ways.
I respect plants in a way I don't chemicals just for this distinction, for good or bad.
although ........................
I've been places with lsd no plant has ever taken me
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Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sat, June 21, 2008 - 10:45 AM>..for there is a great gap in the explorations made to the realms of one of, if not the most
>culturally and geographically widespread and commonly used plant-teachers in human
>history..
Indeed, I think there is little question that these were the most widely used entheogens on the planet.
Datura and a couple of other Solanaceaus plants were used in Tantra including Buddhist tantra (Vajrayana). The new issue of Erowid Extracts has article on this fascinating topic
Parker RC, Lux. "Psychoactive Plants in Tantric Buddhism; Cannabis and
Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism." Erowid Extracts. Jun
2008;14:6-11. -
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sat, June 21, 2008 - 11:41 AMif anyone in the bay area wants to try it, I can show you where they grow...
But I can't say that I would even want to be your sitter.
maybe I will take your photograph and video you eating it, and then wigging out...
But then I would have to leave, sorry...
Don't wanna be around you when you start seeing demons.
From what I have heard the safest way to go about this is to strap the person down and put them in a padded room.
Unless, they really knew what they were doing and have spirit allies that can keep them in check.
But the majority of stories of westerners taking it seems to end in a trip to the hospital.
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sat, June 21, 2008 - 1:37 PMI used to be hardcore. Ive mellowed out a bit in my old age (27). These last few years Ive focused more on health and healing than wild psychonautic adventures.
Some of the more memorable experiences were.
17 hits of L.
Ayahuasca (All by itself)
Ayahuasca (with mushrooms).
High doses of peyote (All by itself)
San Pedro with Caapi vine, which was like a low dose of peyote combined with MDMA
Salvia by itself
Datura (not the most enjoyable or safe, but very trippy in controlled doses).
Virola nutmeg extract in freebase form
High dose cough syrup with my friends ADHD medication and marijuana (This combination is crap for your body and I will never do it again, but it was actually pretty amazing for synthetics).
Acid, E and shrooms.
There are some other noteworthy experiences, but those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head as far as intensity. Some were more mild but still pleasant or profound. -
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 12:48 AMThere's a guy on here who seems to have a lot of experience with datura his name's Travis -
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:08 AMDartura is really dangerous. People sometimes end up dead or seriously harmed. The feeling it induces is terrible. Parched throat, feeling dehydrated but you cant drink or swallow, feverish, delirious, confused, cant focus, cant see because your eyes are blurry.....its a pretty hellish feeling. Next you drift off into sleep and wake up from one life like dream into the next. Eventually you dont know whats real anymore. You dream while your eyes are open, but you dream things that are not going on. Peoples eyes can be open, but what they are experiencing is something other than the reality in front of them. These visions and false realities can occur while your eyes are open or closed, while you are awake or seeming to walk around.
I dont think its very good for you and produces more confusion than insight. The one valuable lesson this plant offers is not to believe in what you see. -
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 9:59 AM>The one valuable lesson this plant offers is not to believe in what you see.
I think it is certain that the plant is valuable for -much- more than this single lesson. However, Tibetan tantrics do indeed seem to have had quite a bit to say about this particular lesson.
The famous Tibetan author Longchen Rabjampa (klong chen rab ’byams pa) frequently used datura-induced visions as an analogy in his discussions of the illusory nature of reality. For example see:
Tulku Thonlop Rinpoche 1989, Buddha Mind: An Anthology of Lonchen Rabjam’s Wrtings on Dzogpa Chenpo
Longchenpa (undated), The Commentary On The Great Perfection: The Nature Of Mind, The Easer Of Weariness Called The Great Chariot
Herbert V. Guenther 1976, Kindly Bent to Ease Us: Wonderment
Robert Thurman 1995, Essential Tibetan Buddhism
It is also interesting to note that Longchen Rabjampa’s “The Four Branches of the Heart Essence” (snying-thig ya-bzhi) has recipes for pills and ointments using datura that are used for magico-religious and/or visionary purposes.This text is part of the Cittatilaka teachings from the Upadesavarga of Ati-yoga (the highest section of anuttara-tantra teachings in the rnying-ma school).
_Taking the Result as the Path: Core Teachings of the Sakya Lamdre Tradition_ (Cyrus Stearns 2006) has an interesting structured meditation on the nature of Solanaceaus drugs (Datura Metel and Scopolia Lurida) and the illusory nature of perception (pg 433):
"Reach a decisive conclusion, thinking: 'However those may appear they are not established in reality. By virtue of the mind being affected by particular substance, appearances arise in that way and a variety of attachment and hatred arise until the efficacy of that substance has faded. When the efficacy of the substance has faded, not even a trace of those appearances remains similarly, by virtue of ones mind having been affected by various habitual propensities without begging, and by its encountering various conditions, it appear as the various places, bodies, and experiences of samsara. The nature of one's mind appears as those things, but they are not even slightly established as objects external to it'"
Check out the below link for more resources on this topic.
vajrayana.faithweb.com/rich_text_5.html -
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 12:57 PMIn Native American mythology Datura was inhabited by the spirit of a trickster who was the student of the more noble peyote spirit. It was thought that Datura (Keri) would be tamed by combining it with Peyote or San Pedro.
Other uses of Datura, especially the Asian variety which is a little different from the native variety, include 'rebirthing' rituals where you seperate one stage of a persons life from another, used in coming of age ceremonies.
In tiny homeopathic doses, datura can be used in medicine like belladona and Mandrake.
Of course there is more than a single lesson to be learned from it. One of those lessons however is to have a healthy respect for dangerous plant medicines. I definitely see the value in Buddhist practice in realizing the illusory nature of reality. However, to the native shamans, datura visions were not to be trusted, as opposed to peyote visions which were considered divinely inspired and to have significance. (Keri) was invoked only under the supervision of Peyote and San Pedro for its visionary use.....At least according to some of the native tribes. It was generally associated with what could be considered black magic in native traditions when used by itself, as opposed to holy/shamanistic work.
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Re: Datura Use in Indo-Tibetan Esoteric Buddhism
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 9:09 PMAbhicara (agressive or "black" magic) was one of the major uses of datura within the Tantric Buddhist tradition as well. However, the difference between black magic and healing is highly fluid. A ritual of destruction can be directed at disease causing spirits and thus be an instrument of healing...
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 8:54 PMThis is hard core and that is soft core,
It all is a pleasant realm of abundance, how then now will there be a real link through these ((neocoritcal ) {trying out a new word} episodic modes of our minds new vehicles of communication. Will, is there a threshold for the spasmodic encounters of vision, relation..
I have in the last few weeks , been encountered by the wisdom of the moonplant (vespertine) Solanaceae (deadly nightshade family)
along here, I am so immersed and enthralled to study, become familiar, and communicate with the creatures first, in there natural pattern of growth.
I currently grow one of the vespertine class moonplant, Impomoea alba, lovely lilac trumpet, leaves that grow large and strong, dying off in a few days to sprout three new the next day, the whole plant is hairy like a peach and the plant smells like a cashew all the time. When it does bloom the scent is heavenly, dont want to put in words, but there is nothing like it. A wonderful woman from Peru sells them here at the local food market.
This is the core of my experience, now to the stars with me, I shall go.
tori amos, murder by death, and bucket head... silliy wiki stuff. sang about the lovely green friends -
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 9:36 PMThe Tree Datura or sacred Datura is a different plant entirely.....The flowers look exactly like the ground vine datura from north America, but dont have the same smell and they are growing on a tree instead of of ground dwelling vine. The "Moon Flower" is amazing.
When I was in Latin America I tried smoking the flower, and it produced some amazing visions where I was transported back in time 50 years to a previous series of events during the civil war in Guatemala. I saw old buildings and soldiers storm an old warehouse that no longer existed, but it turns out it was the same city.
Sacred Tree Dartura has a different personality from the north American vine Datura, and from the asian Datura or datura metel.
When I smoked the Moon Flower of the tree datura I had none of the negative side effects that I got from drinking the tea of the vine datura.
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Tue, June 24, 2008 - 8:28 AMMaybe you are responding to or asking people who are really not here. Datura often facilitates such conversations. I remember a time or two after consuming about a pint of brugmansia tea that legions of faceless yet strikingly familiar entities would pop out of the woodwork and the shadows and hold me captive in conversation -conversations I never could exactly comprehend. -
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Re: if you think you're "hardcore"......
Tue, June 24, 2008 - 5:07 PMi'll take full on bragging rights.
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