so like this is going to sound a bit pissy but...
so yeah a spliff or some tabs or shrooms etc will do a kind of a wow effect which is nice but...
what runs parallel to the wow is the...
so what...?
if any veils do actually get lifted isn't it just to briefly see the world as being even more awful than it was before...?
so yeah a spliff or some tabs or shrooms etc will do a kind of a wow effect which is nice but...
what runs parallel to the wow is the...
so what...?
if any veils do actually get lifted isn't it just to briefly see the world as being even more awful than it was before...?
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 7:06 AMDear Orpheus,
can't you see it's all a projection of your mind?
When you take drugs just to stay high, you are bound to go down.
If you use it for spiritual use concentrate on body and mind and your relation with all life, you can see the beauty of it all.
And marihuana is not a good stimulant to motivate actions.
And if you are sceptic towards spirituality, maybe you should break with your previous preconceptions and delve in for a while. See what it is like and what you can achieve. Read the tibetan book of the dead, read carl jung and see how knowledge of the body, mind and spirit can give you peace and new inspiration.
It is so easy to say that everything sucks. Do something about it. If your life sucks, improve it the way you want. Break with old habits, start anew.
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 7:27 AM"a projection of mind"...?
so the demons are all just mind projections as are the angels then once again back to "so what...?"
what about the "real" day to day workings of the worldly which includes the workings of the so-called spiritual...?
back to the good old marxist materialism etc...
does working at the battery farm really change if you're on prozac...?
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 7:57 AMIf you think "So what". Why even care...?
You don't care, by the way you are questioning.
If you're question is, "How can I change the situation to my will..?" then you are better of. If you think "So what.." with everything, you are gonna get just that.
And the demons are just that, they don't exist, they are not horned little creatures, they are your own unwillingness, own decandence, own pretentiousness, your own lies, your own deceipt, your own fears and hatred.
I work parttime nightshifts in a factory and I feel great, were before I was unsatisfied, I get along with coworkers. Next to that I work as a freelance illustrator, great job, great friends. You see, mushrooms won't 'add' anything to your life. Everything you see, was always there and will always be. So how do you deal with that..? "So what.." Sure.. if you want to. It's a matter of will, and of your personal goals. If you are not satisfied, you better check yourself before checking out the rest, because you are the first and the last person you face everyday.
There are plenty of reasons to stay home allday everyday stoned on the couch watching television saying "So what.."
Deal with your own politics first. So you can add something to what already is. Something beautiful and crazy. -
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 8:23 AMso are you saying that psychoactives make you feel better about your otherwise unchanged situation as a factory worker like a kind of mood enhancer...?
I'm not really sure about what you're trying to say...
kinda sounds like you're a bit of a reactionary telling me I should get a job in a factory and assuming that I stay at home all day smoking pot and watching tv because I'm not a happy well adjusted factory worker like yourself...
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 8:39 AMNo, I was reacting on your phrase "So what.."
You said.
"if any veils do actually get lifted isn't it just to briefly see the world as being even more awful than it was before...? "
What makes it so awful in that sentence. What are you trying to say. We speak from different perspectives, so please explain from your view.
And I am not saying you should work in a factory, your story is different from mine. I bet your capabilities are great. I am talking in extremes you see....Smoking pot all day, against, being motivated and starting new things, living and enjoying life and taking powers in your own hand.
When I speak from my perspective I felt a struggle between the making of money and having creative freedom. I have just graduated and as a starter I am keeping my pants up with my factorywork. In the beginning it sucked, but I have come to enjoy it, making me more free for the rest of the week doing my art.
So when YOU use the word 'awful' what do you mean.....? -
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 8:53 AMfactory work
in zen they say all work is a means to enlightenment
"carrying water, chopping wood"
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 10:14 AMyeah I guess the wow can be kind of like a little holiday visit to harry potter land or claymotion voodooland... hahaha
and like holidays you need to pay for them I guess and maybe if you take enough holidays you can spin it and get a job as a tour guide or a reseller...
and of course different people are gonna have different experiences of the same package tours etc...
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 5:35 PMThe wow for me means:
connecting with my pure intent,
seeing the true light of my existence,
finding wisdom in my struggle,
knowing the meaning of true value,
being fully aware of my body,
being a better person all together.
The psychedelic experience gives me inspiration once every three months, a way to reflect on all things that I have done and a perspective on how I can better myself everyday giving and sharing in more love. The power of being passionate and compassionate. I can do it on my own, even without the sacred mushroom, but for an inner journey it is a tool to put myself under the loop and to connect with the infinite. It brings me pleasure and joy to find new beauty and new inspirations on the other side.
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 8:29 AMi just got out of the hospital after a one month stay. I have MS and the attack left me completely paralyzed with my body shaking constantly and sweating with a 30 percent chance of mortality. My wife and I had spoken about this ahead of time and agreed that if we were ever faced with death we would want to know so she told me. At the time I was also unable to really speak although my mind was fine. Like a babbling child, my wife was able to understand me although the ICU nurses really had a hard time. (saints those icu nurses!) When my wife said that I might die, I told her everything was in order and don't worry about it, it's like walking from one room into another and I felt no fear at all. I think of it now as a kind of real life test and definately attribute my attitude to what I call the Mushroom Elders. If this had happened to me before my breakthrough experience with mushrooms on 02/25/07, I am certain that i would blow my head off with my wife's handgun but now that is not a consideration. My positive attitude I attribute also directly to my mushroom allies - that is just my own observation.
Having danced with death, I now feel a need to be more direct in my assertions about all that has happened to me. By all means I think these entheogens can help us although they are no silver bullet.
"each one finds their own way
so many breezes through the pines"
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 9:05 AMThe wow is the moment when you can change your own neurology. What you give your attention to at that time - external perceptions, internal images, sounds, feelings - has a far greater chance of sticking with you after the trip. Most people take "set and setting" as a passive thing - being in a safe place, excluding "negative" stimuli, etc. - whereas if you take set and setting as a positive and active process, you can decide and change even some of the fundamental ways that you perceive "reality."
If you're in the same place, thinking the same thoughts when you have your wow - yeah, so what? If you contrive your experience to be full of new perceptions and activities - you might have some lasting fun. It's kind of like life.
Use your wow. It's an opportunity, not a gift. -
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 9:39 AM<Use your wow. It's an opportunity, not a gift. >
Reminds me of the benefits of traveling abroad, both within and without.
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wowee
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 10:53 AM" if any veils do actually get lifted isn't it just to briefly see the world as being even more awful than it was before...? "
if the veils are truly lifted then you would see the world as being even more beautiful than ever before.
It might be a temporary thing, but consistent vacations can alter your neurology long term.
I personally wow every weekend... And it carries me through the whole week.
Actually its like i die every weekend. And come back anew.
Its great.
I went from drinking 6 ounces of tequila everyday for a whole year... to nothing.
I haven't masturbated in over 3 months now.
It was the wow that got me off. -
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Re: wowee
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 12:17 PMwell I guess lifting the veil on wanking and tequila is kind of maybe even more beautiful than not lifting the veil on it maybe... -
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Re: wowee
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:33 PMpointlesly contradicting ones-self is intellectually pessimistic (yet may be a lead in socially to a harmonic solution in a conversation, but you didnt finish your sentence) yet rationalized sometimes with laughter and cognitive dissonance through a medium which does not feel. but i shouldnt have said that.
what you are almost trying to exploit with statements like this is the yin/yang toss up of being compassionate towards all as 'one' by accepting yin the will to nothingness as the source of change and directing the change efficiently with your big Yang.
but the 'value' and almost pessimistic outlook towareds enlightenment as supporting of paradigms and status quo, through factory work is not unfounded; just not efficient, its like thinking as if you were a rich corporate king and you want to use your material 'power' to create autonomous alternative currency barter societies or something but you are not within theis possibility 'NOW'. its almost a heady side effect of being intelligent, overthinking on certain points which pull one emotionally to share, an almost pschological 'tantrum' probably echoed from childhood patterns (in a country of perpetual adolescents this is not an uncommon form of dialogue). what the other poster who said soemthing along the lines of pot; had it right in the sense that what you typed sounds like it came from the archetype of a stoner grandpa intellectual arm chair observer who's body is detereorating and so a downward attitude is reflected metaphoricallly.
everything needs balance and what that wise yet misdirected (winnie the pooh's)*eyore grandpa within us all wants and feels a need for change and its energy, but it needs the FIRE of transformation because its a reflection of the ash of impure flame and action which taints surrounding emotional waters, so instead of passively complaing to another *victim or trying to troll out a conflicted response, actual physical reoreintation through yoga and ayahuasca would ground these lofty thoughts into action and motivation but in the unconverteed form of thought they are the source of your laziness and pain to a certain extent. its like seeing a daemon next to you "conceptually" and being an american 'intellectual' the 'natural' tendency is to project as a peice of the collective slaveship 'which is there' but is also only visible to you because it applys to your personal situation as an ironic dissenting portion of this slaveship. this is only a slaveship to those with-out the yang to leave. without the 'balls' toget their freinds and families to gather in a beautiful place autonomously. but where is the money for this? is someone complaing without effort? in a group of twenty people it is statistically extremely easy to save up 1-2 months of wages to buy and self construct an autonomous natural community. BUt addictions(material,emotional,mental,egotistical,and spiritual arrogance) decrease exponentially (as the opposite of awareness) as a dividend for inneficiencey mental/physical satisfaction and therefore distraction.
in other words there is no reason to complain right now at the end of an erroneous era, just come on through to the other side, there is already a cure for every faulty portion of soceity. There is free energy and advanced super efficient grow techniques as well as mystical healing and awareing technology more powerful than a nuclear reactor with a hundred times the expansion through the divine lens of exaction.
but looking backwards was soO0o. last mercury cycle. mercury has turned direct as of yesterday so lets think mercurially and evolve our mindstuff with the compassion to fit everyone, and the knowledge that the whole picture must be assimilated through time and the sometimes slow eroding of traumatic mental boundary. they made the whole ambigupus concept of karma based on peoples emotional and mental inertia; it was so ambiguous in fact it almost allowed for people to accept being 'dumb' in india without gurus trying to change nations left and right. but all of this can and will be scientifically sped up with all the new re-emerging atlantean an extraterrestrial as well as mystical technology. Lemuria and unspoken devotion and telepathy will meet the ingenuity of efficient communication and light technology of the Atlantean Genius Externalized subjective sciences. AKA the fuel meets the fire and framework, AKA the yin meets the yang, AKA all concepts in action applied with harmony and balance.
all reality can be felt through any sense and all at one. mozart chose to hear the universal music of the spheres, a song in and of every movement. how the same thing is perceived and shared shows the level of ones projected care.
Psychadelics almost completley suck (inneficient) at enlightenment in america they should go to india. ONly the most advanced members of mystery schools in the past took them for a reason LSD is almost treason without a shaman within it without a season to dim it, its fun but repeated distraction is only as enjoyable to the extent one is desensitized to it's pointless monotony; which are visions and fractals. i stopped having *hallucinogenic-visions when i trip a long time ago.
all i am really trying to say is orpheous some of your writing sounds like it is floating through an indecisive bardo of a futile yet sensual sharing of unsure statements.
I love you; but that side of my brain didn't write this alone. dont be afraid to start a dialogue or voice any lack of understanding if it is unclear as humans we are all coming and intending connection from the same place its only our different mental languages that may need re-defining and re-tuning for proper mental computing. I come from a family of perfect manifestations of cat/dog yin yang software engineer and lawyer (persuader translator consistent lawyer and wisdom of infinite routes to acheive desired effect and the echoes of evolving computational inputs and (code) intention sharpning programmer gemini) I may have ranted, but i got high in the process, which reminds me of the month last year where i would always being thinking on that channel of mind vibration even when sleeping and how warm intellectual concept singing is in a sacred and divine context.
activists should meet more; message me if you live in la (everyone who reads this sentence and everyone they know included) -
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Re: wowee
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:52 PMso is the "so what?" of the "wow" a prospective enlightenment...? -
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Re: wowee
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 2:18 PMmaybe there is no "enlightenment" to get to.
you can look at it that enlightenment is fundamentally a construct of the seeking brain, a continually projected goal that serves to keep the unfathomable Now at bay. the brain is designed to solve puzzles, so "enlightenment" might be its way of positing a solution to the ongoing unsolvable mystery that is life. brains tend to find uncertainty disagreeable.....
we only get into trouble when we insist that life be ALL wow and no so what (or vice-versa). in fact, reality is both - how could it be otherwise? b/c it is nothing less than all.
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Re: wowee
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:46 PMallillusory,
<I personally wow every weekend... >
I'd be curious to learn what form these weekly "wows" tend to take. More often than not, authentic wows are confused with the adrenaline thrills that come from risky or dangerous activities (e.g., drugs and sex) or extreme sports which (if you're lucky), only kill off the brain cells that are required for learning, as opposed to paralyzing you and leaving you dependent.
That's certainly been my attempt to find "wow" in the past (drugs, sex, extreme sports), but such activities are like your name: illusory. They don't get at the embodied Wow that opens one up to new experience, novel learning, and a new appreciation of the universe.
Sure, if I had the money, I'd love to travel abroad and flood myself with novel and exotic experiences, participate in esoteric ceremony, and learn the unprecedented. That, to me, is authentic "wow," as contrasted with the cheap thrills that pass for MOST people's attempts to escape the television- or computer-shaped box that they tend live in most of the time. -
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what is authentic
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 2:05 PM" Sure, if I had the money, I'd love to travel abroad and flood myself with novel and exotic experiences, participate in esoteric ceremony, and learn the unprecedented. That, to me, is authentic "wow," as contrasted with the cheap thrills that pass for MOST people's attempts to escape the television- or computer-shaped box that they tend live in most of the time. "
Hey man, whatever floats your boat, i say. My wows take place in my bedroom with the lights out...
And the next day I feel great knowing I didn't just blow my tuition money travelling to the amazon to join the natives in their consumption of their brand of wow, in their style. wow is where you find it. If you need a lavish ceremony or guru, then maybe that is your path. -
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Re: what is authentic
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 6:21 PM>Hey man, whatever floats your boat, i say. My wows take place in my bedroom with the lights out...
And the next day I feel great knowing I didn't just blow my tuition money travelling to the amazon to join the natives in their consumption of their brand of wow, in their style. wow is where you find it. If you need a lavish ceremony or guru, then maybe that is your path.<
I'm not saying that Wow is restricted to high ritual of one form or another. I'm saying that, for me, Wow is in part connected to the experience of the novel and unprecedented which, today, I associate with either the technologically advanced (space travel, high bio-, nano-, cyber-tech, etc.) or the re-experiencing of the archaic. What it isn't is a distraction from the embodied and authentic experience that tends to result from the thrill-seeking associated with drugs, sex, etc. Also not saying that drugs and sex aren't involved in it, just aren't restricted to it -- regardless of how "good" it is.
But, of course, however you choose to spend your tuition dollars is up to you.
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:22 PM"I haven't masturbated in over 3 months now. "
WTF! what is wrong with masturbating !?!?
and Orpheus..
I doubt the questions that you raise
are questions that can be answered totally the same for 2 people much less everyone.
but the "knowing" from the personal experience these things can provide
gave me a type of confidence that the things I already suspected about the nature
of reality are indeed very true and that "spirtituality" or "religion" is actually comes from
somewhere very real that I am a part of as much as anyone else, and is not at all
the restrictive, self-oppressive, unfulfilling load of crap that your culture wants you to believe.
but again, for me...
the realization that "everyday reality" was in some ways worse than I could have previously imagined
is part of the price to be paid... and it is a burden... but I feel like knowing this is still a plus...
the world does'nt revolve around you and just because you just figured shit out does'nt mean that
its all coming down now...
things have always sucked in tooth-and-claw, life-and-death reality
but at least we have the tools to realise and act on this.
you have to take responsibility to yourself to deal with these things or else have them plauge you. -
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Re: wow...
Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:47 PMpersonally i feel that Orpheus is just stirring the pot ... What harm is there in doing so? I'm glad someone is here to challenge our psychonautic dogmas. I even suspect that he is a sincere seeker of the truth.
His unclear unfinished statements ... well that is just his style. shit at least he can spell. Some tribe members deliberately misspell their words so others will read them slowly, or in my case, just not bother reading it altogether.
Please continue poking us, Orpheus.
and don't forget to drop more youtube videos...
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